tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post2050427837502295574..comments2023-11-05T05:28:34.444-07:00Comments on Voice of Reason: The answer will always be no unless you ask!Nemesishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00110470182822628791noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-49759911850371939692012-04-30T15:26:47.248-06:002012-04-30T15:26:47.248-06:001,000 "Amen!"s to this and most of the c...1,000 "Amen!"s to this and most of the comments. I thought I was the only woman who wondered about these things. It's unbelievably comforting to know that I'm not alone. Amen, Sisters!Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11191273585364315666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-78534282285758982312012-04-05T21:12:59.367-06:002012-04-05T21:12:59.367-06:00My apologies if this is a repeat--I haven't th...My apologies if this is a repeat--I haven't the time tonight to read through all of the comments.<br /><br />I wish that wards would schedule women as the last speaker in sacrament meeting regularly. It's fairly obvious that that last speaker spot is thought to be the most important--final word and all that, not to mention that it's also the high council slot. And every time a new couple moves in, does it have to be the wife who speaks first and spends half of her time doing the obligatory intro to the family?Cathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-56903142521973506792012-04-03T11:21:34.119-06:002012-04-03T11:21:34.119-06:00@GoddessDivine - Regarding #1, while it's true...@GoddessDivine - Regarding #1, while it's true that the women in the RS/Primary presidencies do speak more often than any particular GA outside the Quorum of the Twelve, in this last conference, women still only accounted for 2 out of the 30 talks (and that's not including the ones given in Priesthood session, obviously all given by males). So while we might here the perspectives from six particular females in conference more often than any six of the 490 members of the seventy, we certainly aren't hearing from women equally in General Conference.<br /><br />Regarding #5 - I can tell you that while I find certain parts of the temple ceremony uplifting and empowering, there are also certain parts that I find deeply upsetting regarding my relationship to Deity. I'm not suggesting that your experience is invalid, I'm just suggesting that there are multiple ways to see how the temple ceremony represents (and teaches) women.<br /><br />Ultimately I agree that further revelation could easily be given on this topic, but I agree with Nemesis' original point - the questions won't get asked unless the askers (aka male leadership) realize that the questions are there in the first place. I simply think that by being a rather homogeneous group, things might slip by their radar.Liz Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07549586800620411712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-81396239713144104482012-04-02T22:04:10.218-06:002012-04-02T22:04:10.218-06:00Okay . . . I'll talk one more time and then be...Okay . . . I'll talk one more time and then be done.<br /><br />I heard an interview with Sister Kristen Oaks, who never got that chance to be a "real" mother no matter how much she wanted it. She spoke about different experiences yielding different spiritual understandings.<br /><br />I agree that motherhood has been a remarkable learning experience for me. HOWEVER, I can see how the whole priesthood/motherhood dichotomy really does discount the remarkable lessons learned by righteous women who are not mothers.<br /><br />Sister Oaks said to Sheri Dew in the interview I heard that "the waiting is sanctifying." Wow. Isn't sanctification (being made holy) what we are striving for in this life? Isn't that what using the priesthood helps facilitate in our men? What am I doing in my busy-crazy-kid-ruled life that is helping me become more sanctified? I loved her view on that (long) time she was single, and the idea that whatever form our life takes (Plan A or B or some combination of these)there are lessons to be embraced and learn. I can see that the idea of motherhood being essential to a woman's long term growth is offensive. It is our service and closeness with which we live to the spirit that brings growth. Kids might be a vehicle for that, but they aren't the only vehicle.Science Teacher Mommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16579558647324072199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-9518476353956042012012-04-02T22:01:42.570-06:002012-04-02T22:01:42.570-06:00I will say, that refashioning the Young Women’s ma...I will say, that refashioning the Young Women’s manual is probably a good thing. While I was not personally harmed by some of the “inadequacies” of the old-school material, looking back I wish there were a greater emphasis on education. Pres Hinckely after all has stated that women should seek all three if they can (marriage, mission, education).goddessdivinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03649750585495782767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-50029622654418564442012-04-02T22:01:20.995-06:002012-04-02T22:01:20.995-06:00I’m afraid I’m going to be the lone voice of disse...I’m afraid I’m going to be the lone voice of dissent, albeit rather late to the party. I’ll try to keep it brief and mild.<br /><br />I will admit to finding much of this unsettling, even as a 30-something singleton who strongly believes in women achieving greatness and all that hoopla. I myself am contemplating a PhD and I applaud my fellow singleton girlfriends in all their academic and occupational success.<br /><br />I have the following thoughts (in no particular order):<br /><br />1. There are currently eight quorums of the seventy, and each quorum can have up to 70 members. That doesn’t even include those with emeritus status. There are only nine women serving in presidencies at a given time. These women have a higher probability of speaking in general conference than any given seventy.....and most will make the rounds two to three times in a five year period, while a seventy might have one chance. As for the prayers, again, the numbers are not in a woman’s favor.<br /><br />2. Female authors of articles in the current Ensign number about nine out of 16....one of which is written by the Primary General President. As a math geek, I calculate that to be 60%. There are also quotes from other women, like Julie B. Beck. <br /><br />3. It was once mentioned to CES teachers that they could acknowledge the fact that there are many revelations “locked up” in the Church vault, merely because the Saints are not ready to receive them. Who knows what’s in those?<br /><br />4. E. Maxwell was once asked why we don’t yet have the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. His reply was basically that too many Saints haven’t thoroughly studied the scripture we <i>do</i> have; why would the Lord be eager to give us more? This leads me to ponder that perhaps there’s a parallel with other doctrines/policies. If we Saints as a whole can’t master the principles and practices we have now, the Lord is not going to necessarily pour more upon us.<br /><br />5. The temple. There is so much instruction about who we are and what we are to become in the various temple ceremonies, that if we truly seek to understand these ordinances, many doubts and uncertainties will fade. As an ordinance worker going on six years, I can attest to the power and humility experienced while pronouncing blessings and promises to fellow sisters.<br /><br />6. I can’t help but think of the Proclamation to the Family as the distinct roles for men and women are clearly defined. We are not meant to be the same; yet we are all equal in the Lord’s eyes.<br /><br />7. If any brother diminishes the worth of a sister in any way, to me that is a male problem....not a Church problem. I currently attend Ward Council and my ward certainly values the thoughts and opinions of all the sisters present. My previous ward did so also.<br /><br />8. I myself have been a gospel doctrine teacher twice. My ward’s two current instructors are both female.<br /><br />9. The very first building, that was not a temple, constructed by the Church was that of a Relief Society meetinghouse. I’d say the women are considered important.<br /><br />10. If women really want to be on a “level playing field” with the men, then they ought to suck it up when it comes to chastening. When Sister Beck gave that motherhood talk several years ago there was such an uproar amongst women it was frankly quite ridiculous. Heaven forbid we be admonished to be better and do more as wives and mothers. The men get slammed all the time; the women for the most part get praised. Seems rather unfair to me. <br /><br />I personally don’t think twice about “fairness” or “equality” when it comes to men and women serving in the Church. In my opinion women are given ample opportunity to shine, and so many do. I am constantly amazed at such stalwart and talented women. There are policies and practices for a reason, some of which we may never know why until the Millennium....or even the hereafter. And I’m okay with that. And here is where I will likely offend: Many of these matters are irrelevant, and my eternal salvation does not depend upon them.<br /><br />(So much for brevity. My apologies......)goddessdivinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03649750585495782767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-52645810297498710022012-04-02T21:55:17.554-06:002012-04-02T21:55:17.554-06:00Great thoughts Liz. When I was in YW a couple of y...Great thoughts Liz. When I was in YW a couple of years ago I had a major epiphany during the general RS session: just as the a. priesthood is preparatory to the m. priesthood, YW is the time to prepare girls to be women in the church--to teach them how to gain and grow a testimony, to give the opportunity to receive and act on revelation, to give them real chances for meaningful service, to show them all that life has to offer as well as prepare them for the real challenges of it. My thought fits well with your analogy. Thanks!Science Teacher Mommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16579558647324072199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-89145372489842283902012-04-02T19:10:29.301-06:002012-04-02T19:10:29.301-06:00@RachelHave you considered talking to them about ...@<a href="#c1761924774400504423" rel="nofollow">Rachel</a>Have you considered talking to them about it? Not in an accusatory, angry way....maybe just in a hey-this-is-how-your-actions-made-me-feel sort of way. because maybe you won't leave the church over this sort of offense, but someone down the line might, and you could help them be more aware of what they're doing.annie (the annilygreen one)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06484522842275619843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-7900408805893599272012-04-02T18:53:32.559-06:002012-04-02T18:53:32.559-06:00Re: motherhood/priesthood, I actually thought Sis....Re: motherhood/priesthood, I actually thought Sis. Beck's talk in GC was rather interesting. She basically said that the women's equivalent to the priesthood is Relief Society (and thus NOT motherhood), and basically if we could just catch the vision of the power and mission we've been given, we'd be a force to be reckoned with. It was an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered.<br /><br />And yes, it would be really lovely if we had any idea of what we should be emulating/aspiring to on an eternal scale. The silence re: our Heavenly Mother and Her role in the Plan of Salvation is really frustrating to me, because I <i>do</i> think it's unnecessary and simply because nobody has really thought to consider that perspective. And I'm pretty sure that if there were some women meeting with the 1st Presidency and Q12 every week, this question would have at least been posed as a possibility at some point. And maybe it has been, and no good answers have been given from God, but it would be nice to know that the questions are at least being asked.Liz Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07549586800620411712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-58356174113486743122012-04-02T18:06:39.746-06:002012-04-02T18:06:39.746-06:00I had to laugh at the "talk-in-a-prayer"...I had to laugh at the "talk-in-a-prayer" bit. Andy and I laugh about that every year. <br /><br />As for Sunday School teachers, 50% of the roster at my ward has been female for the entire 3.5 years, so that's good. And its been a long time since a husband/wife combo has said the prayers in sacrament meeting.<br /><br />Sooo, long story short, there does seem to be some good movement happening.<br /><br />How about my idea: General Conference once every three months instead of twice a year. They could even do a less "formal" version to cut down on cost, and just broadcast it. Here's why - for some many people (myself included) church has become a stressful event (maybe due to kids or callings) that I get so much more out of those hours of conference than I do in a MONTH of Sundays. We need more of em.Missy W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17460098382612386702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-73811728361690111352012-04-02T13:45:26.079-06:002012-04-02T13:45:26.079-06:00And we have this really awesome, out there Patriar...And we have this really awesome, out there Patriarch who makes the rounds in our sacrament meetings and ALWAYS mentions Heavenly Mother and blessing your enemies and taking the gospel to China. He loves to say that most of his friends are Communists (he's been on Sabbatical in China for the last year). You would love him.Science Teacher Mommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16579558647324072199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-19746694873905769302012-04-02T13:43:31.821-06:002012-04-02T13:43:31.821-06:00Excellent post. The Book of Mormon teaches about t...Excellent post. The Book of Mormon teaches about the problems with following the "traditions of your fathers." We are so self-righteous in the Church to point out the otherness of this . . . . like only people NOT in the church have false traditions that have nothing to do with doctrine. The LDS church is FULL of these.<br /><br />My pet peeve? In our ward, my HUSBAND has always been asked to be present when I received a call (I've been asked to be present for his when it was a stake calling) and on TWO occasions, they asked him FIRST. And last week, at my recommend interview? My bishop asked me to tell my husband what a good job he was doing in his calling. <br /><br />I had a friend once who had a sign on her desk that read "Women giggle because it is the only sound they can make through clenched teeth."Science Teacher Mommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16579558647324072199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-85059594674113373112012-04-02T10:44:08.406-06:002012-04-02T10:44:08.406-06:00Emandtrev, we had a chuckle over that one too! Ble...Emandtrev, we had a chuckle over that one too! Bless that man's heart (and his ability to poke fun at himself), and ALSO bless him for reminding everyone that that's not how it works. :-)Nemesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00553415531355924860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-51514236885568700642012-04-02T10:37:29.494-06:002012-04-02T10:37:29.494-06:00I am probably taking the easy way out by saying &q...I am probably taking the easy way out by saying "ditto" to what Heather said, but that is pretty much exactly how I feel. It is definitely NOT just a Utah thing. I've lived outside the state and you see it elsewhere. My ward is pretty evenly split right now with the GD teachers and I think the leaders, men and women, do a really good job at getting everyone involved. I know in some cases it really just depends on the different ward dynamics and the generational opinions. I would love, love to see some updates to the YW manuals (also currently the Laurel advisor). <br /><br />And P.S., did you see/hear (I believe that's what his name was) Elder Wilson's talk in the last session? About correcting his wife on her driving and his justification was because "he has the priesthood?" I know it happens, but seriously. It got a good chuckle, I had a good chuckle, and I definitely thought of you and was hoping you were laughing too.emandtrevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17496021016172870242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-52181461904796230802012-04-01T11:37:59.183-06:002012-04-01T11:37:59.183-06:00Although I think I would struggle with gender ineq...Although I think I would struggle with gender inequality I see in the church whether or not I had children, I do think it's made worse because I can't relate to statements about the supreme joy and ultimate fulfillment of motherhood. Do I love my child? Absolutely. More than I thought possible. Do I love parenting? No. Staying home with my child (a choice my husband and I made together) is a huge personal sacrifice for me. I also carry a fear that little pieces of me, of who I am, are slowly floating away each day. I'm not sure whether it's because of these feelings that I too find statements about motherhood/priesthood condescending and patronizing.<br /><br />An interesting article about equating motherhood with priesthood.<br /><br />http://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=975<br /><br />For those who can't understand how some men and women perceive gender inequality within the church and would like to see some change, here's a link to a great piece by Carol Lynn Pearson.<br /><br />http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=1041CAWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08042260983464315882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-24896975075255004032012-03-31T22:34:44.724-06:002012-03-31T22:34:44.724-06:00Still loving the discussion so very much, and echo...Still loving the discussion so very much, and echo Jeri's admiration for the way that our varied viewpoints and opinions and hypotheses and hopes are being presented and received kindly. :-)<br /><br />Possibly everyone is over it and has stopped looking, but I did want to respond to one thing, as a few have mentioned their feelings about the spiritual aspect of motherhood. I would never dismiss or negate any wonderful or tender or enlightening spiritual experiences my sisters have had. Ever. I wish I had more (read: any) experiences like that but so far I think I'm still rotating through the shellshock/terror/love cycle of motherhood and have not yet moved on to any "dews of heaven" type stuff. <br /><br />I do believe in what Lindsey said about the idea of "motherhood on an eternal scale." This is one reason why, as Liz Johnson and others have said, I think it might help to know more about our Divine example of motherhood, since what we experience here on earth can be so imperfect or even non-existent. And it seems that we won't get that kind of revelation unless someone asks the questions. We do have a precedent for that kind of thing, though, even if it hasn't happened lately. (See the entire Doctrine & Covenants, and how most of the revelations were in response to a question.)<br /><br />One of my beefs with the "priesthood vs motherhood" is when it is used in a way that seems (to me) as a kind of patronizing head pat--along with pretty much any other reason that people (read: men) come up with for reasons why men NEED the priesthood and women do not. <br /><br />This is not to say that I want exactly what men have, because possibly (like in the time of Emma Smith and the founding of the Relief Society) my idea would fall far below what Heavenly Father actually has in store for us as his daughters. The accounts of LDS women who used to minister to their sisters and their children seem significant to me because it wasn't everyone running around all non-gender-specific doing the exact same things. It was women being mothers and daughters and sisters and wives but being able to call upon the powers of heaven to serve each other with assurance and confidence.Nemesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00110470182822628791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-88099191358639468112012-03-31T13:43:16.527-06:002012-03-31T13:43:16.527-06:00Wonderful post and I struggle and acknowledge all ...Wonderful post and I struggle and acknowledge all of these issues myself. I feel like I read a lot of this kind of stuff on various blogs on the internet and wonder if the powers that be in SLC are reading it too? Maybe they are and maybe it will be the blessing of technology that will start to stir the change that is needed. We are women and hear us roar! xoxoPatiencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04519664634471639168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-5249393125888042262012-03-31T09:14:30.754-06:002012-03-31T09:14:30.754-06:00I agree with most of your post. But, there is one ...I agree with most of your post. But, there is one point on which I must disagree. I have no problem when the parallel is drawn between motherhood and the priesthood. Here's why. Motherhood, righteous motherhood, is not simply popping out a kid. The kind of motherhood that I think they're talking about is the kind that requires a close relationship with the Lord, with the priesthood, and with your children. It's the kind that brings up children in righteousness and is a kind of relationship that simply cannot be duplicated by men. Fathers are wonderful, I am not discounting the importance of their role. But, I also FIRMLY believe that a huge part of that role is as a priesthood holder. I cannot emphasize enough how much becoming a mother has changed and enhanced my relationship with God. There is something very pure and powerful about it. There is something there that my husband simply does not have. I also think it's important to mention that we are talking about motherhood on an eternal scale here. Yes, there are those women who will not have that here. That does not discount them or leave them out. They still play incredibly important roles in the lives of other children now and who knows what is waiting for them in the eternities. We have to remember that what we are experiencing here is a small blip. We have the rest of forever to discover and take full advantage of what motherhood truly means. Some get it now, some get it later. But it IS a powerful thing. I find the idea that I need the priesthood to be equal with my husband insulting. He can do things that I cannot. I can hold life inside me. That, he cannot do. Just because its biological, doesn't mean it isn't a gift from God.Lindseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09545292144672358618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-26631156589111513592012-03-30T20:12:10.064-06:002012-03-30T20:12:10.064-06:00I agree that a lot of it's cultural and just d...I agree that a lot of it's cultural and just depends on the men and women in the ward. It seems that the church is always lagging a little bit in change, but thankfully it is lead by modern day prophets so there is change in the Lord's time and in His way. This doesn't mean that women shouldn't speak up when they see something that could be better. We're all about working towards perfection after all.<br /><br />A lot of it is just changing expectations. In the past women haven't really been expected by the culture to learn doctrine or get education so a lot of times their talks were a bit lacking (to be honest). It seems that recently this has changed. More doctrine and less sounding like they're talking to children. <br /><br />It hadn't occurred to me that women don't ever give prayers in GC, but now I really want one to. Oh, the injustice!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02943458335062254334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-79262252364934116282012-03-30T17:56:25.763-06:002012-03-30T17:56:25.763-06:00Because conference is tomorrow, here are a few thi...Because conference is tomorrow, here are a few things I'd like to see (not expecting, just hoping maybe someday):<br /><br />1) more women. I'd like to see women pray at general conference but more importantly I'd like to hear from more of them. What if they were to supplant some of the talks normally given by 70's with members of the Relief Society General Board? <br /><br />2) Semi-annual women's meetings. Why do the priesthood quorums all meet together but the YW and RS are separated? And why do we only get annual meetings? Let's combine them. Solidarity sisters!<br /><br />3) Men quoting women. When does anyone ever quote a women? It needn't be so rare. And when the men of the church give examples of women, how about giving her a name - not just 'I once met a woman who was really sad' (we can do better).<br /><br />4) Less old men telling women what they should look like - Sorry but this really weirds me out. If the Lord can look upon the heart, shouldn't we learn to do as much.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589350438200242878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-8068289969343336692012-03-30T17:15:21.290-06:002012-03-30T17:15:21.290-06:00Many have mentioned modesty as a particularly diff...Many have mentioned modesty as a particularly difficult topic to address in a way that really strikes at what is important. Might I recommend a talk my friend gave (and posted on her blog) that may be of interest:<br /><br />http://diapersanddivinity.com/2012/01/23/the-beauty-paradox/Desmamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04799831623274044784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-7848066931121041062012-03-30T17:03:25.741-06:002012-03-30T17:03:25.741-06:00Can I just add one only-loosely-related thing?
O...Can I just add one only-loosely-related thing? <br /><br />Our ward has men as nursery leaders....and I think we may have stumbled upon one of the truths contained in the sealed portion of the gold plates.<br /><br />It. Is. Awesome.Jen and Joe.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09541995724159371335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-52140384005626818782012-03-30T15:17:57.308-06:002012-03-30T15:17:57.308-06:00I'd like to add let's stop assigning women...I'd like to add let's stop assigning women to speak first and men to speak last in sacrament meeting. In so many instances I've seen women give 5-7 minute talks while their husbands then take 20 minutes to expound doctrine. I'm not sure if it's assigned this way or if women just defer to their husbands to speak longer, but I'd love to see more powerful talks coming from the women.<br /><br />For all of the negative things that can be said about YSA wards, I love how ward councils have functioned in my YSA wards. We women are usually the more vocal ones and our ideas and opinions are taken every bit as seriously as the men's.Melaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03338949204492816733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-70068042445686234152012-03-30T14:32:40.401-06:002012-03-30T14:32:40.401-06:00Like many of the other comments, we don't have...Like many of the other comments, we don't have any issue in my ward w/ no female Gospel Doctrine teachers or only married people praying, but then again, I live outside of Utah. What I DO have an issue with is women of the church not being taught enough, especially not to the men, and modesty. <br /><br />My friend wrote an interesting blog post on how we just don't talk about women of the church that much, which when you think about the gender composition of the church, is a huge oversight. Here's her post: http://cassandraelton.blogspot.com/2012/03/baptism-talk.html<br /><br />And then modesty. Sigh. I do believe in it, I do believe that it is important, and that how you dress is important, but I do NOT believe in how the girls are taught it! It reduces the women to sexual objects, which is exactly what modesty is trying to prevent (among it's other purposes)! We teach the Young Women that they need to cover up so they don't give the men bad thoughts? Argh! Shouldn't we teach the men to control their thoughts? And let's not even go into the complexes we are giving the girls and how this opens the door for major judgmental issues. I should know, I've dealt with both. Sorry, I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts, but hopefully you get my drift.Ericahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04239325769993128532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13684790.post-15645444785660009082012-03-30T10:28:07.122-06:002012-03-30T10:28:07.122-06:00This sparked such a lot of interesting and intelli...This sparked such a lot of interesting and intelligent comments with no one being rude or insulting one another - how often do you see that? Amazing.<br /><br />I do agree that a lot of these things seem to be a 'your ward' problem because we're only a few miles away and have women teachers in Gospel Doctrine, men in the primary (my husband was part of a group of men that were nursery leaders for a year and they were aMAZing with the kids) and any dang ol' person can give the prayers in Sacrament meeting. Not that our ward is without its problems as well, and here I am thinking of the people who routinely drag their kids to the podium to breathe heavily into the microphone during testimony meeting. And the YM teacher who, in his lesson on The Proclamation on the Family said that his wife was more important than his children and that was the way it was supposed to be and that he <i> told his children this all the time </i>. But this is just people who are stupid and still trying to do their best.<br /><br />I think there's a difference between 'motherhood' as our church sees it (divinely appointed and having its own stewardship) and as the world sees it (simply being able to get pregnant). I read this talk a while ago - she says it way better than I ever could and it's worth reading. <a href="http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/10/are-we-not-all-mothers?lang=eng" rel="nofollow">Are We Not All Mothers?</a> <br /><br />Loved Jenny's comments on modesty because... yeah. She is so right. "Modest" should encompass more than just sleeves. Outrageous expense, painted-on tight, suggestive, prostitot outfits... all these things come to mind. And she would have loved the latest morality lesson our YM got because the bishop and the leaders Laid It Out for those boys. <br /><br />I very much liked springrose's comment, even if she did disagree with you, because things would be very different if we had all the answers, instead of being mortals trying to do our best. And this is where I think that things like "EQ leaders aren't sustained in Sacrament meeting" and percentages of male vs. female teachers/prayers/comments/quotes/manuals don't really matter. We don't always understand the reasoning behind procedure or callings or manuals but they were carefully and prayerfully done nonetheless. I think that it's better to focus on the good and make it better, rather than seeking out problems. And there's so much good here to work with.jerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05334193146809678214noreply@blogger.com